Bakhmut has symbolic meaning because Ukra chose it as the local HQ to fight the separatists. It was chosen because it is located between the cities of Donetsk and Lugansk. It also made a good military HQ because it was a good transport hub.
>>>the Kremlin doesn’t have any desire of nationalizing key sectors of the economy, because they are in private hands of a tightly connected web of Kremlin-aligned oligarchs.
But that would be communism, wouldn't it? And it would be such an abominable, horrible, disgusting thing. Didn't we already leave that in the dustbin of history for good?
One thing to note: back in the aftermath of WWI, communists took power in Russia, but they failed everywhere else in Central and Western Europe, even though the ideological foundations had been laid precisely in Central and Western Europe. Why those differential outcomes? They had been a rather marginal group in Russia, not a major political force in any way.
Because in the West you had these large networks of economic dependencies, with what we would now call oligarchs in the center (of course that term is only ever to be used for the former Soviet space, there has never been, there isn't, and there can never be such a thing under "proper capitalism"), but also a very sizable bourgeoisie class that also benefited from the system. Plus the church, which is often forgotten in these discussions.
So it proved very hard to dislodge these entrenched interests that had established their iron grip on society over centuries.
In contrast, in Russia the autocracy had the unexpected effect of suppressing them -- there was the aristocracy of course, but it was a lot less independent than the megarich in the West, and the size of the support class was much smaller. And the church had also always been subservient to the state, not a powerful independent actor, so the autocrat being the singular point of failure affected it too.
So there was much less accumulate baggage to clear out, more popular support for a radical alternative, and thus communists succeeded in the subsequent civil war.
But modern Russia has now built such a network over several generations (it arguably started forming already in the later decades of the USSR, and that was a direct reason why it was blown apart from within).
How do you clear that, even assuming someone would actually take on that daunting task, which does not look likely at all right now?
It isn't just a matter of taking out the oligarchs, there is a very large number of people invested in maintaining the current system -- managers, submanagers, economists, academics, media figures, bureaucrats, etc. During Stalin's purges something approaching a million people were physically disposed of. Physically. Cleaning out the current mess may well require analogously brutal methods, but the size of the corrosive and unreliable elements group is larger now.
In that context oligarchs are now encouraged to create private armies...
There is likely to be a Minsk III cease fire. Historically American presidents do not like to have wars during election years and this Chinese peace plan seems to be a possibility. China has more manufacturing output than the USA and the EU combined. The implied use of this manufacturing power is a pressure point China can use to persuade the Ukraine. Biden might not want to take a chance of having to choose between sending US soldiers and a big Ukra loss in 2024.
NATO supporting a cease-fire might come down to whether they want to take a chance on what China will or not do, to break the stalemate.
In the US these feudal armies are called "private contractors." They're hired as needed and are paid much better than the demoralized all-voluntary army. Conscription, is being avoided as obnoxious apparatchiks know there would be too much pushback from the obese indolent youth who want others to do their dirty work. So only 1% of the US population ever enlists and that quota is becoming difficult to achieve since the vaxx mandates forced 7,000 to leave and the rest of the disgusted troops are questioning the Pentagon's leadership. That's why they're rebranding the old slogan "Be the best you can be." It's getting more difficult to attract young working-class patriots who'd be willing to idelogically align themselves to a liberal grubbie ideology worthy of being a "sacrificial lamb" in endless gangster turf wars.
So, where is Girkin now? Clearly, Prigozhin has internalized the "Follow Me" military axiom: 'You lead from the front.' Knowing a little bit about these things, I suspect this is a guy troops would follow into hell and back. You gotta love his sense of humor.
Well I think Strelkov is the patron saint because for a very long time pro Russians, not just from the west but even in Russia ridiculed and defamed him. Including me ill admit. But it turns out he was right about everything. Like there isnt anything he has been wrong about as far as the course of the SMO. He is a modern persecuted prophet.
I agree that Prigozhin is master troll and even a natural leader. The zeks have gotten the attention but Wagners core is vets of the Russian army. If Prigozhin wasn't a charismatic Alpha in his own right he wouldn't command tons of respect and loyalty on money alone from such guys. I can say that much from experience working in a PMC myself. Where I worked we all knew it was strictly for money and nothing more and our corporate leadership was reviled. By all appearances though Wagner dudes are proud of their status and respect Prigozhin for his larger than life personality on top of the money.
But my point was simply that Strelkov himself also has a pretty wicked sense of sarcasm that even a straight Anglo would applaud. He just doesn't get much credit for it which is the story of his life in general.
Consider; In post WW1 Germany a charismatic psychopath comes to power, by dubious means, promising a return to greatness (4th Reich). In post Cold War Russia, a former domestic spymaster comes to power, by dubious means, and promises a return to greatness (correct the "catastrophe").
Both men are authoritarians. Both men build military machines. Both men involve their respective countries in wars of conquest while saying they are simply liberating their fellow countrymen from oppressive foriegn regimes.
One man led his country to ruin. The jury is still out on the second man, but its not looking good.
" There seem to be private armies popping up in Russia all the time now."
Any movement on the Slavland Stalkers battalion yet Rolo?
Keeping an eye on the lines forming outside the banks here - not impossible I could soon be on the move wearing an overcoat well-insulated with $100 US notes.
> Prigozhin’s the guy with Moscow connections and Putin’s ear on occasion. This is probably because Putin seems most comfortable associating himself with people like Prigozhin. Take that as you will.
Hit. and Muss. were also like this, lower middle class and working class, respectively. Could not stand
the hypocrisy and self-conceit of the rest of the European political and diplomatic milieu. These were all coming from privilege. And they were/are paid back in the same coinage: current or past demonisation of these dictators/president-for-life.
How much do the Wagner pmc charge the Russian government / tax payers and on what basis ? He who pays the piper calls the tune is how it usually works so how is this any different ?
Bakhmut has symbolic meaning because Ukra chose it as the local HQ to fight the separatists. It was chosen because it is located between the cities of Donetsk and Lugansk. It also made a good military HQ because it was a good transport hub.
>>>the Kremlin doesn’t have any desire of nationalizing key sectors of the economy, because they are in private hands of a tightly connected web of Kremlin-aligned oligarchs.
But that would be communism, wouldn't it? And it would be such an abominable, horrible, disgusting thing. Didn't we already leave that in the dustbin of history for good?
One thing to note: back in the aftermath of WWI, communists took power in Russia, but they failed everywhere else in Central and Western Europe, even though the ideological foundations had been laid precisely in Central and Western Europe. Why those differential outcomes? They had been a rather marginal group in Russia, not a major political force in any way.
Because in the West you had these large networks of economic dependencies, with what we would now call oligarchs in the center (of course that term is only ever to be used for the former Soviet space, there has never been, there isn't, and there can never be such a thing under "proper capitalism"), but also a very sizable bourgeoisie class that also benefited from the system. Plus the church, which is often forgotten in these discussions.
So it proved very hard to dislodge these entrenched interests that had established their iron grip on society over centuries.
In contrast, in Russia the autocracy had the unexpected effect of suppressing them -- there was the aristocracy of course, but it was a lot less independent than the megarich in the West, and the size of the support class was much smaller. And the church had also always been subservient to the state, not a powerful independent actor, so the autocrat being the singular point of failure affected it too.
So there was much less accumulate baggage to clear out, more popular support for a radical alternative, and thus communists succeeded in the subsequent civil war.
But modern Russia has now built such a network over several generations (it arguably started forming already in the later decades of the USSR, and that was a direct reason why it was blown apart from within).
How do you clear that, even assuming someone would actually take on that daunting task, which does not look likely at all right now?
It isn't just a matter of taking out the oligarchs, there is a very large number of people invested in maintaining the current system -- managers, submanagers, economists, academics, media figures, bureaucrats, etc. During Stalin's purges something approaching a million people were physically disposed of. Physically. Cleaning out the current mess may well require analogously brutal methods, but the size of the corrosive and unreliable elements group is larger now.
In that context oligarchs are now encouraged to create private armies...
WTF???
Nice summary of unintended consequences that reformers often miss.
The degenerate west thinks that it is doing neo-liberalism? Hold my beer... it is time to create the first PMC army.
There is likely to be a Minsk III cease fire. Historically American presidents do not like to have wars during election years and this Chinese peace plan seems to be a possibility. China has more manufacturing output than the USA and the EU combined. The implied use of this manufacturing power is a pressure point China can use to persuade the Ukraine. Biden might not want to take a chance of having to choose between sending US soldiers and a big Ukra loss in 2024.
NATO supporting a cease-fire might come down to whether they want to take a chance on what China will or not do, to break the stalemate.
In the US these feudal armies are called "private contractors." They're hired as needed and are paid much better than the demoralized all-voluntary army. Conscription, is being avoided as obnoxious apparatchiks know there would be too much pushback from the obese indolent youth who want others to do their dirty work. So only 1% of the US population ever enlists and that quota is becoming difficult to achieve since the vaxx mandates forced 7,000 to leave and the rest of the disgusted troops are questioning the Pentagon's leadership. That's why they're rebranding the old slogan "Be the best you can be." It's getting more difficult to attract young working-class patriots who'd be willing to idelogically align themselves to a liberal grubbie ideology worthy of being a "sacrificial lamb" in endless gangster turf wars.
You have to be wary of the christian roman imperial SS guys over on TERRORGRAM. The totenkopf is always bad news...
So, where is Girkin now? Clearly, Prigozhin has internalized the "Follow Me" military axiom: 'You lead from the front.' Knowing a little bit about these things, I suspect this is a guy troops would follow into hell and back. You gotta love his sense of humor.
Strelkov is a rare type of Slav who does sarcasm that Western and Northern Euros can relate to.
lol ... that explains Rolo's "patron saint" comment. Hahaha ... thanks.
Well I think Strelkov is the patron saint because for a very long time pro Russians, not just from the west but even in Russia ridiculed and defamed him. Including me ill admit. But it turns out he was right about everything. Like there isnt anything he has been wrong about as far as the course of the SMO. He is a modern persecuted prophet.
I agree that Prigozhin is master troll and even a natural leader. The zeks have gotten the attention but Wagners core is vets of the Russian army. If Prigozhin wasn't a charismatic Alpha in his own right he wouldn't command tons of respect and loyalty on money alone from such guys. I can say that much from experience working in a PMC myself. Where I worked we all knew it was strictly for money and nothing more and our corporate leadership was reviled. By all appearances though Wagner dudes are proud of their status and respect Prigozhin for his larger than life personality on top of the money.
But my point was simply that Strelkov himself also has a pretty wicked sense of sarcasm that even a straight Anglo would applaud. He just doesn't get much credit for it which is the story of his life in general.
Roger that. Thanks for the very thoughtful explanation. I suspect you're totally on the mark. Thanks again.
"Capable of more than just defending the homeland"
What is he (Prigozhin) referring to?
He is stating two things here:
1) Capable of defineding the state
2) And more than that.
A Wagner capable of defending the state would be a totally different Wagner than the current one. And what would "more" refer to in this context?
Pure speculation: creating a Slavic imperium? (or at least a Slavic homeland?)
Especially as he follows up this line with: "an army with an ideology ... the fight for justice"
Justice for who? The Slav's?
History repeats it is said.
Consider; In post WW1 Germany a charismatic psychopath comes to power, by dubious means, promising a return to greatness (4th Reich). In post Cold War Russia, a former domestic spymaster comes to power, by dubious means, and promises a return to greatness (correct the "catastrophe").
Both men are authoritarians. Both men build military machines. Both men involve their respective countries in wars of conquest while saying they are simply liberating their fellow countrymen from oppressive foriegn regimes.
One man led his country to ruin. The jury is still out on the second man, but its not looking good.
Lol @Sberkut. But just imagine the levels of 4th position synthesis we could achieve if красный&белое makes a private army.
The culture of death lives! I see skulls all over US military uniforms as well as such criminals entities as BLM, Hells Angels, et al
They can't wait to go to Hell...poor fools!
" There seem to be private armies popping up in Russia all the time now."
Any movement on the Slavland Stalkers battalion yet Rolo?
Keeping an eye on the lines forming outside the banks here - not impossible I could soon be on the move wearing an overcoat well-insulated with $100 US notes.
Feudalism - God's will or common sense?
> Prigozhin’s the guy with Moscow connections and Putin’s ear on occasion. This is probably because Putin seems most comfortable associating himself with people like Prigozhin. Take that as you will.
This is because of Putin's lower middle class extraction. See also https://historytnt.com/p/putin-was-a-1960s-leningrad-gopnik
Hit. and Muss. were also like this, lower middle class and working class, respectively. Could not stand
the hypocrisy and self-conceit of the rest of the European political and diplomatic milieu. These were all coming from privilege. And they were/are paid back in the same coinage: current or past demonisation of these dictators/president-for-life.
How much do the Wagner pmc charge the Russian government / tax payers and on what basis ? He who pays the piper calls the tune is how it usually works so how is this any different ?
How old is Prigozhin?